Desperate Houseflies: The Magazine

Feel free to pull out your trusty fly swatter and comment on what is posted here, realizing that this odd collection of writers may prove as difficult to kill as houseflies and are presumably just as pesky. “Desperate Houseflies” is a magazine that intends to publish weekly articles on subjects such as politics, literature, history, sports, photography, religion, and no telling what else. We’ll see what happens.

Tuesday, July 26, 2005

Part One of Three

I didn’t think that I would be exercising my option to post an article rather than write so soon. I have actually written about two-and-a-half posts (and y'all know from last week that I do not lack for words!), but the interview below has crucial background information to provide context for some of my thoughts -- which I will start sharing next week. (Hey, I have to have a hook!)

And when it comes to marriage, I have a lot of thoughts.

The Myth of Marriage

By Monica Mehta, AlterNet. Posted July 21, 2005.

The institution of traditional marriage is in a state of crisis.

There's a misstatement in that sentence. But it's not that marriage is in crisis. It's that the institution of marriage is, or was at any time, traditional. As Stephanie Coontz reveals in her new book, Marriage, A History: From Obedience to Intimacy, or How Love Conquered Marriage, human unions have gone through a number of evolutions. We would be remiss to think that it was ever a stable institution. Instead, it has always been in flux. It has only been based on the concept of love for 200 years; before that, it was a way of ensuring economic and political stability. Through painstakingly-detailed descriptions and anecdotes from hunter-gatherer days to the modern era, Coontz points out that "almost every marital and sexual arrangement we have seen in recent years, however startling it may appear, has been tried somewhere before." So when we think of cohabitation, gay marriage, or stepfamilies as deviating from the "norm," we are wrong, because there has never really been a "norm."

For a country obsessed with the perfect image of the nuclear family -- mother, father and two kids -- this is eye-opening. We are trying to force ourselves to be something we never really were, or were for a very brief period of time. Instead, Coontz argues, we need to be more tolerant of and open to different forms of union. People with traditional "family values" lack the skills to adapt to social realities that have changed marriage, such as the increased independence of women.

Coontz argues that many of our familial woes come from an unrealistic, idealized version of marriage, and advocates a more liberal interpretation of marriage. Many have had this idea before, but Coontz's centuries-long historical survey confirms it. Below, she answers our questions about marriage, the government's support (or lack thereof) of the institution, and what really makes a marriage work.

What is the central thesis of your book?

The basic argument for this book is that what we think of as the traditional marriage -- the marriage based on love, and for the purpose of making peoples' individual lives better -- this was not the purpose of marriage for thousands of years. Instead, marriage was about acquiring in-laws, jockeying for political and economic advantage, and building the family labor force. It was only 200 years ago that people began to believe that young people could choose their own mates, and should choose their own mates on the basis of something like love, which had formerly been considered a tremendous threat to marriage. As soon as people began to do that, all of the demands that we now think of as radical new demands -- from the demand for divorce, to the right to refuse a shotgun marriage, to even recognition of same-sex relations -- were immediately raised.

But it was not until the last 30 years that people began to actually act on the new ideals for beloved marriage. Social conservatives say that there has been a crisis in the last 30 years, and I agree with them, that marriage has been tremendously weakened as an institution. It's lost its former monopoly over organizing sexuality, male-female relations, political social and economic rights, and personal legitimacy. Where I disagree with them, is in how to evaluate that change and its consequences. I agree that it poses tremendous challenges to us, the breakdown of this monopoly of marriage, but I disagree with the idea that one could make marriage better by trying to shoehorn everyone back into the older forms of marriage. Because the main things that have weakened marriage as an institution are the same things that have strengthened marriage as a relationship. Because marriage is now more optional, because for the first time ever, men and women have equal rights in marriage and outside it. Because women have economic independence. This means that you can negotiate a marriage, and make it more flexible and individualized than ever before. So a marriage when it works is better for people, it's fairer, it's more satisfying, it's more loving and fulfilling than ever before in history.

But the same things that make it so are the things that allow people not to marry, or to leave a marriage that they find unsatisfying. My argument then is that you can't have one with out the other. And so we'd better learn to deal with the alternatives to marriage. Alternatives to marriage being singlehood, cohabitation, divorce and stepfamilies, all of these kinds of alternatives to marriage that have arisen.

So it's not about necessarily strengthening the union of marriage as it's been known for years, but adapting better to new forms of marriage?

I think of the revolution in marriage very much like the industrial revolution. It opened up some new opportunities for many people. It also created havoc in some peoples' lives. But the point is that it was not reversible, there was no way to go back to turn everyone into self-sufficient farmers. So we had to reform the factories, and we had to deal with the reality we faced. I would say that the revolution in marriage is the same. There is no way to force men and women to get married and stay married. There is no way to force women to make the kinds of accommodations they used to make, to enter a shotgun marriage or to stay in a marriage they find unsatisfying. So we have to learn with both the opportunities and the problems that raises for us.

You mention that evangelical Christians are just as likely to remain single or divorce as atheists.

Yes. One of the signs that this is in fact a huge, irreversible revolution in personal life on the same order as the industrial revolution, is that it doesn't matter what your values are. Everyone is affected by this. Even people who want or think they are in a traditional marriage are not exempt from these changes. So that the divorce rates of evangelical Christians are the same as those of agnostics and atheists. And in fact, the highest divorce rates in the country are found in the Bible Belt. First of all, the Bible Belt is a more poor area of the country, and poverty is a huge stress on marriage and other relationships. But I also think that there's something in the values of the Bible Belt. People who are extremely traditional, people who believe that sex outside of marriage is immoral, tend to get married early. And in today's world, that is a risk factor for divorce. So that's one of the reasons that they tend to divorce more. We are experiencing a revolutionary change in the way that marriage operates, and the dynamics of marriage. It's so much more important now to meet as equals, to be good friends as well as lovers, to have values that allow you to change through your life and negotiate. And a lot of people with so-called traditional values in fact don't have those skills.

Would you say that Republicans with "family values" have better marriages?

No, and I wouldn't say that Democrats have better marriages either. I think that you really cannot predict how well a marriage is going to go by the values that people have entering it. And in fact, one thing we do know for sure is that women with higher egalitarian ideas about gender are still slightly more likely to divorce than women with more traditional ideas. The opposite is true for men. Men with more traditional ideas about male bread-winning and female roles are more likely to divorce today than men with more egalitarian liberal views.

What is the analysis of that? Do you think it's that both parties have to come halfway to meet each other?

I think it's because for thousands of years marriage was set up to benefit men more than women. Most of the emotional expectations and the kinds of tasks that people brought to marriage involved women shouldering the physical work and emotional work that makes life goes on. So it is women that have an interest in changing the traditional terms of marriage. They are the ones most likely to ask for change. And people who actually study marital dynamics report that it is one of the best predictors that a marriage will last and be happy is when a women asks for change and the man responds positively. So I think that the difference in divorce rates is that if the woman is more egalitarian than the man, she's more likely to not get the changes she wants. But if the man is equally or more egalitarian, she is likely to get the change she wants and that marriage is going to work better, for the man as well as the woman.

So from all of your research, if you were to sum up what does make marriage work, what would you say?

Well, first of all, there are two different things: one is interpersonal relations, and one is social context. You cannot produce one success without support from the other. Married couples in their interpersonal way certainly have to be deeper friends and more respectful of each other than at any time in the past. It used to be that people basically fell in love with the gender role. "This is a manly man, he'll take care of me." "This is a womanly woman, she'll take care of my kids." Nowadays, people need to like each other as much as they love each other, and they need to respect each other. That's one important thing. They need to learn how to negotiate and how to handle conflict more than they had to in the past when the rules of marriage just said that women had to obey.

But in addition to that, people need support systems. We live in a very unfriendly environment for families. Married couples, if they're going to keep their marriages going, need things like parental leave, subsidized parental leave so it's not a class privilege to take some time with your kids. They need family-friendly work policies. They need high quality, affordable child-care. So that they don't have to call in sick or quit a job or spend hours agonizing about their kids. The lack of these social supports for families really stresses families. So it's very ironic that many of the people who claim to be most in favor of marriage do not spend any time building these support systems. **** End of Article****

The central point Coontz makes is that marriage has changed over time, particularly since love became its raison d’etre and most especially in the twentieth century. Next week, against the historical backdrop set forth here, I will take on the issue of same-sex marriage. Note: this is an excerpt of the interview. I hope everyone has a great week!

6 Comments:

Blogger Duane said...

Sandi,

Great article! I'm all for using quotes. I look forward to parts 2 and 3. As a person (chaplain) who spends much time trying to help heal broken marriage relationships, Coontz has many great points about the need for friendship as well as love and better conflict resolution skills. The point she makes about willingness to change seems to me to indicate the need for partners to respect one another enough to treat each other as equals, a very important part of a good relationship indeed!

What is lacking from many Christian marriages is the "love your neighbor as yourself" attitude that is extremely important. What I see in broken relationships is a selfishness that gets sickening at times. Instead of the relationship being about "us" it is all about "me." I believe that has a lot to do with our cultural interest in self-fulfillment at all costs. We don't care as much about what others want or need as much as what we ourselves want. I look at the ideal I mention and find myself extremely lacking at times as well. However, I still believe an attempt to be less selfish and more self-sacrificial can go a long way toward conflict resolution and strengthening relationships.

8:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good article, Sandi. I agree about the fundamental friendship and support needs in marriage. I am very blessed to have just that and honestly don't know how people have good marriages without.

Joe & I have already had several conversations, and I agree with him to a point.

Here's a question that hopefully Duane or Al will be able to answer for me.

Through past posts we've somewhat established that we should treat others as Christ would have treated them, not necessarily as purported "Christians" treat them. Check. (Not that we didn't know this already, from the BIBLE, but many seem to have forgotten it.)

We also seem to agree that we should only impose our beliefs & Christian values on fellow Christians (as Christ did not follow around non-believers and try to force them to believe). Check.

So, if we say "let 'em marry!", then what do we do when a homosexual couple (or individual) who are/is legally married starts to ask questions about the Church and about Christ's expectations for how we are to live? They are truly interested, and they truly desire to be a Christian.

Hypothetical: This couple visits us at Church or we visit them through some form of outreach. They ask questions. They set up a Bible study. Things progress, hopefully to the point where they want to be saved.

The Bible is clear that homosexuality is unacceptable in God's sight. So, when we tell this couple that what they are doing is unacceptable for a Christian and to be a Christian they will have to make a concerted effort and give it up (just like alcohol, pornography, gossip, self-pity etc.) are we asking them to divorce?

If so, is this divorce seen as legal only, because the marriage was never recognized in God's sight?

I am very, very, VERY confused on how we would handle this issue within the Church (meaning, after someone has decided they want to be a part of Christ's body) should same-sex marriage be legalized.

So, can we, as Christians, really say, "Let them marry?" Are we just confusing, and subsequently doing a huge disservice to future Christians?

Let me say, that I agree that people should legally be able to share their "rights" with whomever they choose. It is how those rights translate into Christian attitudes and behaviors that I do not quite know how we can reconcile. I would love to hear someone's take on this.

12:01 PM  
Blogger JD said...

Very interesting post and comments from all.

I think we have to recognize that the author of the article has her own agenda (as all writers do), and this colors her perceptions of the observations she is making. The author tosses in 'same sex marriages" in her comments as if they are as common and acceptable as other living arrangements. My opinion is that this is setting up her conclusion. Mehta does say some good things, as has been acknowledged.

Whitney brings up some necessary points for Christians. There are certainly no easy answers. Hate is not the answer, we all would agree. But neither is moral relativity. Every church will face this issue, I believe. I think that there is no way to say to the homosexual that God does not approve of homosexuality - and it be taken gracefully.

Key in the discussion is the question of choice ... and there are important discussions on both sides of that issue. I do not think that homosexuals regard their lifestyle as being in the same category with alcoholism, drug addiction, etc. This suggestion is insulting on its face, to them.

So, if the Christian is going to maintain that homosexual behavior is sin, then be prepared to offend. No matter how sweet you are about saying so (and it should be compassionate, caring, and in genuine love).

My only suggestion at this time is that Christians who will turn to the Bible for answers will have to believe that the homosexual marriages are sin before God. However, that does not have to be the ONLY thing we talk about, and perhaps it is not the best place to start. And we may have to be tolerant with believing homosexuals and hope that discipleship leads them away from their sin. This is how we deal with most people who have recurring sin in their lives. We pray, we point the way, we wait patiently, we love and encourage. We make it clear what the truth is on the matter - but we do not have to say that every time we see them. That's one short-term strategy, but it is not a good long-term strategy.

I'm not sure Sandi wanted to engage on the subject of what churches/Christians ought to do or not do ... but here we are. Kudos for not being afraid to jump right in!

10:29 PM  
Blogger Duane said...

Whitney,

You pose a great question and problem that is all too real today. I keep waiting for Al to answer, but he does not seem to want to respond (just kidding, Al). Anyway, there are a couple of key points I think are necessary to discuss. You might end up thinking I'm non-committal on this, but just follow along with me and we can go from there.

First, I don't think we "impose" (your word) our Christian beliefs upon even Christians. I think it is more of a dialog in which we honestly seek to understand the Bible together and what implications its teaching should have in our lives. For instance, Jesus' concern with the poor and the implications of that and the command to love one's neighbor as oneself. I put the two together and look at the life of Jesus and say we ought to be actively involved in our communities reaching out to the poor and helping them in any way possible. Someone else might come to that same passage and apply it in a different way, focusing mainly on interpersonal relationships at work and home. We have both "obeyed" the second greatest commandment but have had different understandings of how it applies in our individual lives.

Second, the "marriage in the sight of God" thing has always been a problematic understanding to me. The Bible nowhere explicitly talks about being married "in the church" being in the sight of God, but being married by a civil authority not being recognized by God. It simply prescribes in a very general way how married persons should behave toward one another. Jesus does deal with the specifics of divorce and Paul deals with issues of non-Christian spouses, but that's as specific as it gets in the NT. Having said that, homosexual marriage did not exist in biblical times and it would be hard to know the mind of God as to whether or not he would recognize it as a marriage. Maybe Al has more wisdom than I do on this. I'd be curious to hear his thoughts.

A third, and final, consideration would be the couple's understanding of homosexuality. There are many Christians today, well-educated ones, who think and teach that homosexuality is not condemned in Scripture, but that it was a cultural issue. They believe that it was the type of homosexuality, which in modern terms would amount to pedophilia, that was condemned. Since the Bible does not envision a committed, loving homosexual relationship, it does not speak to that situation or condemn it, so the argument goes. If they have that understanding, it would be difficult to try to teach them otherwise.

I guess where I'm at with this is that while it is really a possible scenario, the issues are very complicated. The way I tend to handle things, whether it is the right way or not, is give people the tools to make their own decisions. I would come back to the love your neighbor argument. We might have different understandings of what that means practically, but we are both attempting to follow Jesus' intent. I would teach them my understanding of homosexuality from the Scriptures and my understanding of marriage and then help them struggle with what they should do. I can't make the decision for them and I think it is God who will convict their hearts (if necessary) and I'd spend a lot of time in prayer asking him to give them wisdom and guidance.

Well, I need to get to work now, but these are my thoughts and how I would handle such a situation.

7:09 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JD & Duane,

Thank you for the very thoughtful comments. I tend to agree with both of you, and realize that (1)we can't impose our beliefs on anyone...they either believe and follow God's teachings or they don't; and (2) no matter what we do, it must be done with love and compassion.

Duane, I specifically appreciate your personal approach you mentioned. I am by no means an authority on dealing with these issues, but see a lot of merit it the practice of "giving people the tools" and letting them use them in their own way.

Sandi, I'm sorry for hijacking your post with a religious spin. These were honest, heartfelt questions that I have when we start talking about these issues, and my Christian views tend to drive my questions.

Al, I'm still waiting on you! :)

2:04 PM  
Blogger Al Sturgeon said...

Sorry for my absence. I returned from vacation with 156 email messages, and I've tried to catch up a bit.

I'll simply add a good ol' church-sounding "amen" to Duane's comment. As usual, I literally could not have said it better.

We're doing the same sort of thing already with divorce (though you can see the trouble that causes at times). Folks come to me with crazy messed-up situations. Some people tell them definitively that they have to divorce their spouse and go undo a few marriages to find the one done "in God's sight." I don't do that...

With kudos to Duane's "the-Bible-is-complicated" column, I do my best to give them the tools to form their own conclusions. And then I keep loving them and respecting their honest choices.

Discussions on "Christian" sexuality are interesting (maybe Duane, since he is the resident religious scholar, would be brave/stupid enough to engage the issue!). The New Testament offers VERY little on the subject. "Fornication" is a problematic word to interpret, and no one can cite OT sexuality references with a straight face.

Somewhere in Alabama on my trip home, I saw a rural CofC marquee that offered, "HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION BEFORE GOD." First of all, is this a primary message? But secondly, why don't we try "BACON IS UNCLEAN BEFORE GOD." That's another nice OT sentiment. Or what about, "DO NOT APPROACH A WOMAN TO HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS DURING THE UNCLEANNESS OF HER MONTHLY PERIOD" (that was a few verses before the abomination verse). Or, "DO NOT CUT THE HAIR AT THE SIDES OF YOUR HEAD" (a few chapters later).

I'm on a roll.

We could talk about how we shouldn't charge people interest, how to do polygamy inheritances the Bible way, rules for marrying women taken captive in battle, and (my personal favorite) how we should cut a woman's hand off if she grabs a man's private parts to defend her husband in a bar fight.

Read the Torah sometime. Lots of cool stuff there.

Jesus brought in a whole new ballgame, however, centered on loving God with whole hearts and loving each other the same way.

We would do well to read from some new sections of the bookstore than the evangelical aisle. In fact, the books we should read probably aren't in the store in the first place - books that argue concepts we aren't familiar with... PLEASE step back long enough to realize that the UCC & Episcopal Church (etc.) didn't embrace homosexuality from a church-growth, marketing guru. They have reasons that it would help if we tried to understand.

As Duane points out so well, we would benefit from a dose of humility in light of such powerful subjects.

2:01 PM  

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