Desperate Houseflies: The Magazine

Feel free to pull out your trusty fly swatter and comment on what is posted here, realizing that this odd collection of writers may prove as difficult to kill as houseflies and are presumably just as pesky. “Desperate Houseflies” is a magazine that intends to publish weekly articles on subjects such as politics, literature, history, sports, photography, religion, and no telling what else. We’ll see what happens.

Monday, February 28, 2005

1 State, 2 State

I'm a born-again liberal. Which is to say I'm liberal by choice, not by upbringing. Nor by social convenience, as I'm a tiny blue speck in some of the reddest country in Red State America. As a former conservative and current liberal-in-diaspora, I'm intrigued by the differences between these 2 Americas. (Barak Obama notwithstanding, there are 2 Americas, at the very least.) A recurring theme in this space will, I suspect, be my attempts to identify and understand what distinguishes liberal from conservative; how the two see the world differently, and therefore not only come to different political conclusions, but so often find each other's conclusions utterly opaque and unjustifiable.

For my first trick, I'm going to explain the past 8 years of presidential politics.

Presidential politics have been unusually interesting during the period covering Clinton II and Bush43 I. Opinion on these 2 presidents could hardly be more polarized. Clinton: beloved icon of liberals; Great Satan of conservatives. Bush43: beloved icon of conservatives; Clueless Warmonger of liberals. What makes that reality even more interesting is that, policy-wise, Clinton was not a particularly liberal president, nor is Bush43 a particularly conservative one.

What gives?

A similar polarization arose in the 2004 election cycle. Liberals "got" Kerry and not only preferred him, but couldn't understand how any rational adult could support Bush. Conservatives, on the other hand, "got" Bush and not only preferred him, but couldn't understand how any rational adult could support Kerry.

What gives?

The answer -- or what I take to be the primary answer, at least -- occurred to me while I was watching Tim Russert interview Sen. Kerry a few weeks before we all put ourselves out of our misery by going to the polls (You did vote, didn't you?). Russert asked Kerry a series of questions about Iraq. You've been critical of the president's Iraq policy, Senator. What would you do differently about [tactical problem X in Iraq]? What would you do differently about [tactical problem Y in Iraq]?

Kerry responded with answers that took the general form of: I don't know; here are my general principles on Iraq and foreign affairs, but what I'd do about the particular tactical problems you asked about, I can't say until I have all the facts about the tactical situation on the ground -- i.e., until I'm Commander-in-Chief.

Now, let's lay aside for a moment the fact that these answers were, in part, the old Washington Dipsy-Doodle -- don't answer any question directly if you don't have to -- a dance performed equally well by generations of politicians on both sides of the aisle, going all the way back to the debate over the ratification of our Constitution. To the degree that's what Kerry's answers were, they were dissatisfying to both liberal and conservative voters. But that qualifier -- "to the degree that's what Kerry's answers were" -- is where the real division reveals itself.

To conservatives watching that interview, Kerry's answers were nothing but the Dipsy-Doodle. They were an instance of his unprincipled refusal to say exactly what he'd do and stick to his guns. Bush43's willingness -- even eagerness -- to do just that is the very thing conservatives adore most about him. They call it "principle" or "strong leadership."

To liberals watching that same interview, however, there was more to Kerry's answers than the Dipsy-Doodle. They were an instance of his principled refusal to make policy decisions (actually, at that point in the proceedings, campaign promises) without knowing all the relevant facts. This is, when you boil it down, the thing liberals see Bush43 as utterly lacking. They call it "realism" or "humility."

The labels used by each side, however, as usual, mask the real difference between them, I think. The problem is not that liberals want an unprincipled president who lacks the strength to lead, or that conservatives want a dictatorial president who has no grasp of reality. We're talking about rational adults on both sides, here; neither group of voters is foolhardy. Well, not that foolhardy, at least. No, the problem is that liberals and conservatives have completely different ideas about what kind of a thing Truth is.

Conservatives have an atomistic view of Truth. There are things which are right, and things which are wrong. The rightness or wrongness of these things cannot be changed; a wrong thing will always be wrong, a right thing will always be right. Similarly, the rightness or wrongness of things doesn't depend on anything outside themselves; a right thing is right in any context, and likewise for wrong things. Therefore, conservatives want to hear a political candidate say what he thinks are the right things, and display his or her devotion to doing them regardless of what other facts might arise. To fail to do so is spineless waffling.

Liberals have an historical view of Truth. There are not things which are simply right or simply wrong; there are only Things Humans Do, and their rightness or wrongness depends on the context in which they happen to occur.* A thing that is right in one context may be wrong in another. Therefore, to know what's right in any particular situation, you have to examine all the relevant circumstances. To pronounce one's devotion to a specific course of action before one knows all the relevant facts is foolish arrogance.

Conservatives watching Russert's interview with Kerry would (and apparently did) see pure spineless waffling: if one has any principles at all, one should always be able to say ahead of time what one would do in any context, because a thing that is right in one context is always right in any context. Things are not more complex than that (recall the way Kerry was hammered for not giving simple answers in the debates). Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Period.

Liberals watching the very same interview would (and apparently did) see the old Washington Dipsy-Doodle, certainly. (Just contrast the excitement Howard Dean's directness aroused in the primaries with the lukewarm, if consistent, support Kerry maintained, if you suspect liberals of blindness to Kerry's shortcomings as a candidate.) But the old Dipsy-Doodle isn't all liberals saw in that interview. They also saw humility and realism: if one has any principles at all, one should never, just for the sake of pandering to anxious voters, say ahead of time what one would do in a particular and complex situation, because you can't know what is the right thing to do without all the facts. Things are not simple (recall the way Bush43 was hammered for giving one-sentence answers in the first debate). Expect the unexpected.

Because we have these differing views of Truth, liberals and conservatives look for different things in a candidate -- things that have nothing inherently to do with politics, policy, or party.


  • A liberal wants to see a candidate lay out his or her broad principles, then display the intelligence to apply those principles to the myriad of hugely complex situations he or she will face if elected.
  • A conservative wants to see a candidate lay out his or her broad principles, too, but they also want him or her, when asked, to say with certainty exactly what he or she will do on particular issues, because he or she knows what is the right thing to do, and knows it's right regardless of circumstance.
  • What assures a liberal that a candidate will do the right thing once in office? Seeing that candidate's broad principles, ability to reason, and devotion to doing the hard work of using those tools to find the right thing to do in whatever situation arises.
  • What assures a conservative that a candidate will do the right thing once in office? Seeing that candidate's certain knowledge of what is right and unshakeable devotion to the rightness of that thing no matter what situation arises.

Or so goes my current theory, anyway.

That's why liberals loved Clinton and loathe Bush43, while conservatives are just the opposite. Even though many of his policies were not notably liberal, Clinton was the liberal non pareil when it came to having the intelligence to walk into a policy debate, gather the relevant facts from the country's current situation, and apply broad, well-informed principles and concepts to those facts to find the right thing to do under the circumstances; to conservatives, this made him infuriatingly phony. And although many of his policies are not very conservative, Bush43 is the conservative non pareil when it comes to pronouncing what he's going to do and sticking to it no matter what new facts arise; to liberals, this makes him arrogance personified.

Whether you're talking about Clinton v. Bush43 or Bush43 v. Kerry, to each side of the political divide, the other side's man is the very antithesis of what they most want in a leader. No wonder the two sides not only disagree, but get angry that the other side would even offer their man as a serious option.

*[A number of liberals, possibly including me, would take issue with this statement. They (or we) would say there are things which are simply true or simply false, but they are much, much fewer and much, much less specific than conservatives insist.]

24 Comments:

Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

NB: Yeah, yeah. I posted a day early. So sue me. It was either that or post sometime after noon on my official day, and I didn't want Al to have a thrombo this early in his blogolescence.

3:25 PM  
Blogger Al Sturgeon said...

Hey Trent - you still amaze me how you can have your ultimate opinions on things (liberal confessions), but then step back and look at things w/o apparent prejudice. Thanks for not getting me fired from my job on your first post. :-)

5:38 PM  
Blogger Terry Austin said...

Wafflers.

8:20 PM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

"how you can have your ultimate opinions on things (liberal confessions), but then step back and look at things w/o apparent prejudice"

Cause and effect. I step back and (try to) look at things from both sides because I'm a liberal.

9:49 AM  
Blogger Al Sturgeon said...

Yeah, I really meant the compliment, but I've got to admit that I'm trying to compliment myself in my attempt to look at things with the same objectivity and openness. Not with the same intellect mind you, but the same approach...

My problem becomes my self-righteousness when I notice how proud I am of my non-prejudicial self. Two more dance steps and I'm quite prejudiced I'm guessing.

Maybe that would make a good "religion" post?

2:37 PM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

You mean something about dancing?

3:19 PM  
Blogger Al Sturgeon said...

Nah, I live on the Mardi Gras-happy Gulf Coast. Dancing is too lame a topic.

It is the "Mississippi" Gulf Coast, though. Prejudice isn't such a bad choice.

Of course, I know where you live. Since I've lived both places, I feel qualified to say that prejudice would be a much more appropriate topic in your fair city.
:-)

6:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Al,

This is a really good idea that you came up with. I can't wait to read the upcoming articles from everyone.


Trent,

I really enjoyed your views. I don't care much for discussing politics all that often, mainly b/c of the hard feelings that can come from it, but the manner in which you presented this article, in particular, hopefully will help me remember that people have different views and that mine are not always the correct ones. I hope that all of your articles will help me think a little more positive about the subject of politics b/c it is such an important topic in our country today.

7:12 PM  
Blogger Al Sturgeon said...

Thanks, David! Keep reading!

5:41 AM  
Blogger Soren said...

Al,

That was some good stuff. I think I'm finally starting to "get" you.
I'm looking forward to reading more of this blog.

6:50 PM  
Blogger coolhandandrew said...

Great analysis. Very well thought out and insightful. I think what worries me most about this is something you at least hinted at; how guttural a reaction both sides have to the other sides' candidates, and how broad the chasm seems to be between the two Americas. Is there any hope for synthesis between these two great nations?

8:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can Clinton continued to be viewed as a great president? What did he actually accomplish?

I question Bush's intelligence, but how can we question his results? Even if you buy into a worldview that economic forces are a major driver for democratic reform, isn't Bush a catalyst for the change?

By the way, when is a president screwing an intern ok in the historical truth of a liberal? I think Clinton lost a lot of the support of moderates and help to create this chasm by being a sex hound. I know that is when I lost respect for him.

8:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This "two Americas" nonsense makes me want to take a 3 iron to someone. I can't hit the golf ball with it so I might as well alleviate some suffering. This idea of two Americas is lifted straight from John Edwards stump speech which was lifted from the tired old democratic playbook of trying to convince as many portions of the population as possible that liberals are the only ones who care about you and are willing to fight for the little guy. (Pay no attention to the fact that as long as you remain an oppressed little guy voting democratic, we Dems. get to stay in office so we really have no incentive to help your situation improve.)Rich vs Poor, Old vs. Young, Every color of the rainbow vs. White, Owners vs. Renters, XBox vs. PS2, Boxers vs. Briefs on and on it goes. They blather on endlessly about our differences and wonder wistfully why we are so polarized. There is one America, an America with a myriad of different people and ideas competing in the market place. The folks whining about two Americas have seen their ideas defeated repeatedly in this competitive market and can't bring themselves to admit it. As for the lament over the division of the population on ideological lines and the can't we all just get along sentiment... we've never gotten along. You think campaigns are ugly now, read some history and some of the things our founding fathers had to say about each other or the campaign literature of the 1800's. The tone today is no different and the Republic lives on. In fact it thrives on the bloodsport. The strong ideas, proven by time, will survive, the weak are left behind, whether they realize it or not.

10:37 AM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

Ah, a time-tested political tactic: if there's something you'd like to criticize an opponent for saying, but, doggone it, they just haven't said it, pretend they did and criticize them anyway.

11:46 AM  
Blogger Al Sturgeon said...

Now we're having fun...

Technically, one America. Philosophically, two at the very least.

Since I have taught several history classes, I did read a few of the books I was supposed to read along the way. I remember, in particular, a time in our past when one techinical America with two different philosophies suited up and tried to blow the other one up.

I always encouraged students that recognizing differing philosophies, seeking to understand them (as juvenal's post attempts to do wonderfully), and raising the important questions of how to bridge those gaps (as in cool hand's comment) are preferable to both ignoring the differences and taking three-irons to the heads of one another.

1:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In defense of anonymous, although I doubt he took the time to do more than skim juvenal's column, his message looks more like a knee jerk reaction to an over all theme of 2 Americas. And he did stir things up a little which I suspect was his goal. You right to point out the civil war, but it could be seen as the most extreme example of the competition of ideas anonymous referred to, and one definitely won out over the other. States' rights have been all but forgotten to say nothing of slavery. Attempts to bridge the chasm are admirable and even plausible at the state and local level but in the show, reaching out to the other side too often results in watered down policy no matter which side your on. Take W's effort in the first term to reach across the aisle for example, he practically let Ted Kennedy write the No Child Left Behind Act all by himself and how was the goodwill gesture returned? Kennedy became one of the chief critics of the plan and the loudest voice screaming in the New Vietnam/Bush is Hitler movement. I'll take my chances with an occasional metaphoric 3 iron to the head over luke warm policy that neither side really likes.

4:38 PM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

I have no objection to someone stirring the pot. Anonymous just did it badly.

"States' rights have been all but forgotten"

Sad to say, this remains a very, very live issue. Of course, the 2 parties have completely switched sides on it since Reconstruction, but States' rights remains a very hot topic among conservatives. During the Civil Rights Movement, southern conservatives preferred to call it "interposition." Nowadays, it mostly travels under the more respectable and genteel name, "federalism."

Conservatives' main point of attack on the issue for the past several decades has been often very complex court cases (Justices Rehnquist and Scalia are federalism's leading judicial advocates), which is why we don't hear about it all that often in the news.

5:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank goodness for soon to be Chief Justice Scalia and his parrot Clarence Thomas. Maybe they can turn the tide and make states rights, federalism, or whatever name it carries more than just a quaint idea. I read somewhere that the powers not proscribed to the federal govt. are reserved exclusively for the states. If the federal govt. gets any more obese or obnoxiously intrusive, Kirstie Alley will be out of a job again.

6:36 AM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

"I read somewhere that the powers not prescribed to the federal govt. are reserved exclusively for the states."

Yeah, but then you have to skip down and read those pesky amendments.

7:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Trust me I've read them. The language I was paraphrasing is from pesky amendment 10 and there is nothing in the 9 that preceed it or the 17 that follow that contradicts.

9:22 AM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

Except insofar as the rights expressed in those first 9 are guaranteed to every citizen, regardless of what individual states might (and often do) want to do. I think I'm safe in saying the majority legal scholars agree that the states cannot abridge the individual rights guaranteed at the federal level.

Sure, there are Borks out there, but theirs is a fringe view.

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"regardless of what individual states might (and often do)want to do"

That is a neat trick, reading the minds of every state legislator in every state legislature in the nation. I was not referring to states mythically trying to undo the bill of rights. My point is that the federal government has overstepped its bounds in size and scope and many of the issues our Congress meddles in should be left to states to regulate for themselves. You are pretty sharp, juvenal, we probably won't agree on much, but I look forward to reading your columns. I'll try to be your thorn in the flesh from time to time. Steel sharpens steel.

10:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"regardless of what individual states might (and often do)want to do"

That is a neat trick, reading the minds of every state legislator in every state legislature in the nation. I was not referring to states mythically trying to undo the bill of rights. My point is that the federal government has overstepped its bounds in size and scope and many of the issues our Congress meddles in should be left to states to regulate for themselves. You are pretty sharp, juvenal, we probably won't agree on much, but I look forward to reading your columns. I'll try to be your thorn in the flesh from time to time. Steel sharpens steel.

10:54 AM  
Blogger juvenal_urbino said...

"That is a neat trick, reading the minds of every state legislator in every state legislature in the nation."

I don't have to read anybody's mind, junior. It's not as if we don't have 200+ years of history to go by.

"I was not referring to states mythically trying to undo the bill of rights."

There's nothing mythical about it. The issues over which conservatives have made (& continue to make) states' rights arguments are, for the most part, issues concerning peoples' constitutional rights -- generally, cases where the federal gov't is saying people have rights that conservatives would prefer those people not have. That's just the historical reality.

If such issues are left to state & local decisionmakers, the most small-minded outcome (most restrictive view of civil liberties) is the most likely outcome in most localities. That's the outcome most "states' rights" conservatives want, which is why they advocate states' rights. Let's not pretend they're really concerned about states' rights. That's true of only a tiny fraction of the people who deploy the rhetoric. If most small towns and states favored recognizing that people different from them should have the same rights they do, 90% of the states' rights rhetoric from the right would dry up overnight. And be replaced by the same rhetoric from the left.

As for steel sharpening steel, I actually don't plan to respond to comments much. Nothing personal. I'd like to, but it just gets to be too much of a timesuck. I'll definitely continue to read the comments, but probably won't respond to them. Once we get enough readers to maintain a conversation on their own, my role will be just to write something interesting for the commenters to converse about.

11:42 AM  

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